Marc Lore on pivoting, hiring stars, and backing your edge

Executive overview

Early-stage founders often cling to initial models even when the evidence points elsewhere. Perceived risk of change is overstated; the real risk is staying on a failing path.

Marc Lore — founder of diapers.com, jet.com, and Wonder — joins Guy Raz to advise three founders on scaling, distribution, and pivots. Each case surfaces a common principle: double down where you have a genuine, defensible edge.

When you spot gold, abandon silver — sunk costs are irrelevant.

Pivoting to brick and mortar: Wonder's story

• Wonder started as a fleet of Mercedes Sprinter vans cooking food at the customer's door.
• After two years of culinary engineering, a test showed 30 virtual restaurants could fit in a 2,800 sq ft kitchen with two pieces of electric equipment.
• Lore told the board: shut down 450 trucks and $30M in revenue — and did it.
• The new model unlocked multi-restaurant ordering, faster delivery, and better unit economics.
• Founders conflate "unknown" with "risky"; the status quo carries equal or greater risk.

Caller 1 — Chomp Chocolate: lean into customization

• Ben Bailey built a bean-to-bar vegan chocolate factory in Salem, Oregon for $700K.
• Revenue grew from $400K (year one) to $750K, tracking toward $1M; 70% direct-to-consumer.
• A cocoa-price crisis prompted a "Build-A-Bar" model (online customization, similar to Build-A-Bear).
• Lore: competing on commodity chocolate against Hershey requires hundreds of millions in capex — you can't win.
• Customization is defensible; no large company can replicate the flexibility of a small, vertically integrated factory.
• Emphasize craft process (bean sourcing, roasting, grinding) as quality signal — more persuasive than ethics claims.
• Opportunity: position single-origin bars like fine wine, with terroir storytelling and premium pricing.

Caller 2 — Baby-A-Go-Go: get on shelves, reduce retailer risk

• Lindsay Shores created a vacuum-sealed single-diaper travel kit and an expanding wet-wipe disc.
• Now in six Areas airport stores including Atlanta; retail price $5.25.
• Challenge: buyers love the product but hesitate on an unproven category.
• Lore's advice: offer 100% returnability (product doesn't spoil; unsold units come back and ship elsewhere).
• Start on consignment if cash allows; use eye-level point-of-purchase display units.
• Two parallel tracks: high-margin airport/emergency channel now; build toward a scaled, lower-pricepoint mass-market version.
• At 10M units, cost structures change — don't lock in a price ceiling based on current economics.

Caller 3 — 10th Mountain Whiskey: dominate the region before expanding

• Ryan Thompson founded a craft distillery in Vail, Colorado in 2014; ~10% share of Colorado whiskey market.
• 80% of revenue from Colorado; 80% of management headache from out-of-state distribution.
• Industry headwind: declining alcohol consumption among younger demographics.
• Lore: focus outperforms spread — doubling Colorado share (10% → 20%) is more achievable than thin national expansion.
• A deep regional brand commands acquisition interest from multinationals; shallow national presence does not.
• Pull back out-of-state distribution, redirect that focus to Colorado, then expand to one adjacent state once momentum is proven.

On hiring: the one lesson Lore would give his younger self

• Winning and losing is almost entirely execution — and execution is people.
• Look for a demonstrable track record: promoted within companies, made a visible impact when changing roles.
• The top 5–20% of performers do the majority of the work; one or two of them can define a company's trajectory.
• Interview chemistry ("honeypot" effect) is unreliable — resume history is more predictive than rapport.
• Gravitating toward low-probability, massive-upside outcomes is the entrepreneurial disposition worth cultivating.